On Tuesday’s Neue Day, CNN’s John Avlon surprisingly stood up for free speech: even speech he doesn’t like. He was part of a discussion, along with fellow liberal Mara Schiavocampo, about Dave Chappelle’s new comedy special The closer, which has faced intense pushback and outrage from the cancel culture mob, especially from Netflix employees who claim that some of Chappelle’s jokes were offensive and transphobic.
Netflix has refused to take down Chappelle’s special, which has high audience ratings and has been extremely popular on the streaming service since its release.
Schiavocampo began the segment by complaining that Chappelle was still very successful: “Yeah, it is really unclear what reality Dave Chappelle is living in right now. Because he’s making this about free speech, he’s making this about efforts to reject cancel culture but he has won every skirmish related to The Closer…I’m not sure what he’s fighting for at this point, when he is winning everything.”
In response, Avlon pointed out the protests and anger that have been directed at Chappelle for his jokes: “Well, I think what he’s fighting for is against the pressure that’s being applied to him and Netflix to shut down The Closer.” He went on to say, “Free speech, especially for a comedian, social commentator, seems to be something that we should not dismiss because historically that’s usually the losing argument.”
Avlon deserves credit for recognizing the dangers of censorship even though he only tried to censor. Schiavocampo still expressed frustration that Chappelle has been calling out his opponents despite not actually being “cancelled”:
SCHIAVOCAMPO : You can see the effort to stop something that isn’t happening.
AVLON: It is indeed happening.
SCHAVOCAMPO – That’s the confusing part.
AVLON – It’s happening.
SCHIAVOCAMPO – He hasn’t suffered any consequence.
AVLON: That’s a different – the fight is different from a consequence. He’s winning, he’s winning the battles, you’re absolutely right. He’s fighting against the tide. That’s why we are talking about it today.
Neue Day’s co-host, Brianna Keilar, asked Schiavocampo to clarify her personal opinion on The closer, to which she responded: “I did not like the special. I thought that it was mean.”
Schiavocampo was wrong to believe that offensive and mean language should still be protected, which Avlon didn’t hesitate to assert:
There is no right to not be offended…And my only issue is not whether Chappelle’s right or wrong, but his absolute right to say what he wants. I believe that comedians and social commentators would be well-advised to keep in mind liberal values when there are these types of fights within our culture.Although I may not agree with your views, I will defend you right to speak them.We move on from the illiberal urges that we see to put someone down or condemn them.
This is a very insightful observation that CNN should remember.
IHOP sponsored this CNN segment. Whole Foods Market also sponsored it.
Click Expand to see the complete transcript.
10.26.21
8.15:00 AMBRIANNA KEILAR: A new response from comedian Dave Chappelle following this controversy surrounding his latest Netflix special saying that it isn’t about beef with the LGBTQ community, but it’s about corporate interests. Let’s hear it.
DAVE CHAPPELLE, You stated that you desire a secure working environment for Netflix. It looks like I am not the only one who cannot go to work. You can’t blame anyone in the LGBTQ community. [ bleep ]This is. They have nothing to do. It’s about corporate interests and what I can say and what I cannot say. For the transgender community I am more than happy to be your audience. You won’t summon me. I won’t bow to any demands.
KEILAR : Okay, we’ll talk with John Avlon, CNN senior political analyst, and Mara Schiavocampo, journalist and host of Run Tell This podcast. Okay, Mara, what is your reaction to Dave Chappelle’s reaction?
MARA SCHIAVOCAMPO : It is not clear what kind of reality Dave Chappelle lives in at the moment. He’s trying to ban cancel culture, but this is about freedom of speech. However, he won all skirms related to The Closer. Netflix stood by him 100%. It refused to remove the special and add a disclaimer. The special has been in the top ten since it’s been released. The Hollywood Bowl gave him a standing ovation. The release of ten documentaries with screening dates and tickets sales has brought him tremendous support, especially from the black community. It’s hard to imagine what he wants, given that he has everything.
JOHN AVLON: Well, I think what he’s fighting for is against the pressure that’s being applied to him and Netflix to shut down The Closer. People protest from outside Netflix and within Netflix. He is reacting to the pressure. Not to the outcomes. And, you are right. He has been successful in every fight to date. Also, free speech for comedians and social commentators seems like something you should never dismiss. In the past, that was often the losing argument.
SCHIAVOCAMPO : You can see the effort to stop something that isn’t happening.
It is indeed happening.
SCHAVOCAMPO – That’s the confusing part.
AVLON: This is what it looks like.
SCHIAVOCAMPO – He hasn’t suffered any consequence.
AVLON: That’s a different – the fight is different from a consequence. He’s winning, he’s winning the battles, you’re absolutely right. He’s fighting against the tide. That’s why we are talking about it today.
SCHIAVOCAMPO, I believe that the tide has been in his favor greatly and that he is actually asking questions about who he is fighting for. He has been supported by many. People support him, particularly in the black community.
KEILAR : It’s not what you like.
SCHIAVOCAMPO : The special was not for me. It was too mean to me.
AVLON, Right. Now, the problem is that many people — lots of people support Dave Chappelle. Many people are offended but it is not right to be offended. There is controversy. The discussion shows that it is. The only thing that I have a problem with is Chappelle’s correct or wrong. It’s not his absolute right and freedom to express himself as he sees fit. And comedians and social commentators in particular, we need to keep our minds on liberal values. We move on from the illiberal urges that we see to shame or condemn someone, regardless of whether it is actually the consequence. It is evident that this fight is genuine by the way the fight pitches.
SCHIAVOCAMPO: But it’s a little bit confusing and here is — I’ll tell you why, he ended his special by saying this is the final word on this. This is all I have to say. I won’t talk about it again. Now why then, just a few short weeks after the show’s success, does he bring it up in this fashion?
AVLON (English): I believe the controversy was forced upon him. It’s fair to say that I agree with him. This is my last chance to discuss it. It has not been the last he’s talked about it. Because this topic has been raised and there have been many calls for Netflix to remove it. However, I feel that Netflix should not be pulling their support. It’s okay for us to disagree, and there should be great discussions. It’s the censorious impulse to say he should be shut down for this point of view that I think is troubling, not only to Chappelle fans, but to folks who just say, look, we need to find a way to call a truce in these culture wars and do it by refocusing on liberal values. When you actually look at his special, it’s universal individualism. And, I believe, that’s what he actually means. And I know that gets – that wades into a really, a thicket of controversy right now. However, I believe that this is a fundamental idea of liberal values that can be lost when we retreat into group identities and begin pointing fingers at one another.
JOHNBERMAN: Can people be offended by someone special?
SCHIAVOCAMPO: I can certainly understand why the LGBT community – LGBTQ community is upset. Now, it’s not my place to speak on their behalf, but I do listen. When Netflix workers are protesting this and when leaders from advocacy groups say that the special is dangerous in the middle of the most deadly year for transgender women and men, then I must listen. Everybody who belongs to a marginalized group (and I am one of them) wants to support those seeking allies. We all need allies. So, it’s understandable why people are upset. It is understandable, however, that he is so well-respected in the black community. He has been an unwavering advocate for social justice over many decades. He actually walked out of the Chappelle show partly because he did not like how it depicted black people. This is why he left the show with 50 million dollars. He is an advocate of the culture. I can understand why he is considered a black hero.
BERMAN: I got to say, no one’s been cancelled. And someone’s making a lot of money off of specials that are being sold right now. I believe these are just two of the facts you will see at end.
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