Holt Badgers Barr on ‘Systemic Racism’ After Former Attorney General Rejects BLM ‘Big Lie’

As part of his book tour, former Attorney General Bill Barr joined NBC’s Lester Holt for an exclusive sit-down interview that was aired on Friday’s NBC Nightly News And the Saturday edition Today. Holt failed to persuade Barr during his interview that American police have systemic racism or bias.

Holt confronted Barr with an argument from the book, “you write about the big lie being Black Lives Matter…What did you mean by that?”

Barr responded by explaining that “Black Lives Matter is based on the premise that the main threat to black welfare in the inner city are out of control police force that gratuitously kill African-Americans and I think that’s something not born out by the facts.”

A bewildered Holt didn’t see how this could be: “In society, do you believe there’s such a thing as systemic racism?”

Helping highlight the fact that Holt confused “society” and “the system,” Barr rejected the notion, declaring that “racism exists in…individual’s souls.”

A more contentious Holt then wondered if Barr was being unsympathetic to plight of black Americans: “By dismissing systematic racism, are you not dismissing the pain of African-American families that have to sit down with their children and have ‘the talk’ because they’re afraid a simple traffic stop could lead to their death?” 

Barr defended himself by claiming “I don’t dismiss that as a reality,” but “I don’t think that police are racist and — as a general matter.”

Continuing to argue, Holt again asked, “You don’t see bias in police?” Barr continued to stand firm: “No, in every study of the situation that I’m familiar with says there is no bias. The numbers are—are– the product of the number of the number of interactions police have.”

Holt then tried one final time to push his narrative: “Yeah, and black men are the subject of three times as many traffic stops by police.” Barr responded with a much simpler explanation, “that sometimes is a function of where the police are. Police go where the crime is.”

So, correlation doesn’t necessarily mean causation.

Vicks sponsored the segment.

The transcript of the March 5, 2009 show is available here:

NBC Today

3/5/2022

7.41 am ET

LESTER HOLT: Can we talk about the big lie? 

BILL BARR: Which is it? 

HOLT: Well, you write about the big lie being Black Lives Matter. 

BARR: Yeah. 

HOLT: Was that what you meant? 

BARR: Black Lives Matter is based on the premise that the main threat to black welfare in the inner city are out of control police force that gratuitously kill African-Americans and I think that’s something not born out by the facts. 

The CROWD: Black Lives Matter

PROTEST LEADER: Black Lives Matter

HOLT: In society, do you believe there’s such a thing as systemic racism? 

BARR: I actually think the whole idea is a cop-out. I think racism exists in people’s, individual’s souls. 

HOLT: By dismissing systematic racism, are you not dismissing the pain of African-American families that have to sit down with their children and have “the talk” because they’re afraid a simple traffic stop could lead to their death? 

BARR: No, I don’t — you know, I don’t – just, I don’t ignore that – 

HOLT: I disregarded the term. 

BARR: I don’t dismiss that as a reality. I don’t think that police are racist and, as a general matter. 

HOLT: You don’t see bias in police? 

BARR: No, in every study of the situation that I’m familiar with says there is no bias. The numbers are—are– the product of the number of the number of interactions police have.

HOLT: Yeah, and black men are the subject of three times as many traffic stops by police. 

BARR: Right. And—and—and—and– that sometimes is a function of where the police are. The police go to the scene of crime.